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Author Topic:   Perfected Push/Pull
toast
Member
posted 05-25-99 06:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
I'd be happy to do that methhead... it'd be great!, i'll add a little "picture by methhead" blurb in the corner too...

one question, two actually, kinda three...

do you know when you've added enough NaOH by when it smells like urine/ammonia? is there another way to tell?

and, how many layers are there in the last gatorade jug, 2 or 3? is the water layer also the acid layer, or does the acid go into the coleman layer, or is the coleman layer seperate from the acid and the water layer?

thanks for the info dude...

oh yeah, can I use a pyrex glass bowl, have you ever tried this?

methhead
Member
posted 05-25-99 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
The recipe i've given you bees, is exactly
how I was taught.......as far as testing the
colemans, no........there is no other way
that I know of......there should be two
layers.....acid/honey and colemans.....when
you add the lye and shake, you'll get 3
layers.......acid/water,colemans/honey, and
the middle layer will be junked E and R and
lye.......any crap that was left over....the
top layer is the colemans.....after you
shake it up, look at the jug after you
release pressure, and you'll notice that
small air bubbles are rising into the
colemans rapidly, almost like it's
carbonated.......this is the honey, being
pushed into the colemans............also,
the last jug should contain just 2 things...
colemans/honey and distilled water.....when
you start adding the muriatic to it, you'll
get a very small 3rd middle layer of honey
globules.........but this will stay in the
middle, cuz they aren't pure.........as for
the pyrex bowl, the only way to test a
glass bowl, is to put a very small amount of
water in it, bring it to a boil, and then
immediatley put it in ice water.......make
sure you're protected, cuz it'll shatter
all over the place if it doesn't work......
i've only used Visionware, and have never
tried Pyrex, but Corning makes Visions, and
Pyrex.......so, it might work.........
well, i'm now going outta town for a day or
so, so i'll post after I get back......

slick
Member
posted 05-27-99 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Methhead, glad to see your back, anyway I was wondrering if you ever tried match book red phos. Ive seen a few places to order from but dont need a paper trail, this 1st trail run I will only need 15gms so its kinda practical for this shot, but not if fuks things up. I can see where your case wouldnt being big batch difference, what ya think?
Slick Out

methhead
Member
posted 05-27-99 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
I've heard the grade of matchbook phos isn't
that great, but you gotta use what you gotta
use........I say go for it........

slick
Member
posted 05-27-99 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
methhead,Im going for it Ill let ya know. Buy the way what brand of psudo. are you using, I cant seem to get all the red out of these and I want white like you?
Slick

methhead
Member
posted 05-27-99 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
I use Top Form brand........go to your local
smoke (bong) shop, and see what they have...
If they don't have them, then ask them to
carry them........they are 120 count 60mg
bottles and go for around 20-25 dollars a
bottle.............

toast
Member
posted 05-28-99 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
well let's say I wanted to get a very large quantity of pseudo... what about buying a case of sudafed? I heard a story about someone who tried this at walmart and got in some sort of trouble, security guards detained them or something, perhaps a wholesale club or something, if I were to buy a bunch of other stuff...

what about ordering ephedrine or pseudoephedrine overseas? anyone have any experience with this?

or extraction from ma huang?

not that I'd ever want to do any of the above...

toast
Member
posted 05-28-99 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
ok, methhead, I updated the page yet again, I added a picture of a rather weird looking (in comparison to your method) push/pull setup, (thanks fzr96, I gave you credit on the page)... I also added a materials list for each step..! so send me those pictures any time, spoon_x@hotmail.com, other than files, all e-mails should be sent to chemistry@hushmail.com

http://members.xoom.com/_lysergic/pushpull.html

Also, does this procedure yield methamphetamine freebase, or the hydrochloride salt?

fzr96
Member
posted 05-28-99 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fzr96     
toast the wine bottle is the reaction vessle and the flask at the other end is filled with active charcoal but like i said beeter to use a vacum flask instead of wine bottle for reaction vessel and yes i got the idea from push and pull from rhodiums site.use psudeo hcl the ratios used are the same as methheads 1sudeo to 1 i2 to 1/2 rp

fzr96
Member
posted 05-28-99 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fzr96     
oh by the way follow the same procedures as methhead has described to yield your honey its the same prcedure just a variation of a push and pull dvice

toast
Member
posted 05-28-99 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
Uhh, I was a bit vague. I meant does the push/pull procedure in general, not yours or methhead's exclusively, yield the freebase or the HCl?

fzr96
Member
posted 05-28-99 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fzr96     
hcl

DemonDog
Junior Member
posted 05-29-99 03:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DemonDog     
Toast: If you find any info about the above mentioned, purchasing of large quantities of pseudo, let me know. My e-mail is unisonic@hotmail.com or post it. I'm checkin on it myself.

this is my first time posting to the hive, pretty fuckin cool place.

DemonDog

DemonDog
Junior Member
posted 05-30-99 01:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DemonDog     
it is unisonic@rocketmail.com not hotmail, mistake

spitball
Administrator
posted 05-30-99 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spitball     
About the matchbook RedPhos, Keep in mind that the yeild is about 2 grams per 400 match books. And it will more than likely screw with the reaction. But it's your call..


-Spitball-

slick
Member
posted 05-30-99 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Spitball,
Im glad ya straightened me out before I
stocked up on anymore matches, I had the impression that a box of 50 yielded around
1-1/2gms each and wouldnt screw up the reaction. Now, Ive seen different places
to order from but if I were asked what purpose I intended to use it for, what could I say? or am I worried about something for nothing. Iodine has so many uses, I really dont worry about that, but red phos. seems to be a major pain in the ass.Is red phos being whatched by the feds? And last, do you happen to know of any places I can get less than a kilo of red at a time,? if your concerned about posting in front of to many eyes, please email to richard@98rockmail.com.
Thanks for your wisdom, slick

slick
Member
posted 05-30-99 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
fzr96,
Couple questions for ya. Does that picture on toast's site give you any problems with exploding wine bottles, how can you see your reaction taking place thru colored glass, and what size bottles are you using for your water vessels? Oops one more, what is the purpose of bleeding your exit tube thru active charcol, doesnt it suck the charcol up on the final pull or do you remove it after the push? So many questions.
Thanks, Slick

slick
Member
posted 05-30-99 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Methhead,
I had 2 baby food jars about 3/4 of the
way full of sudifed,( 1000 tabs 30mg each) I got the red off, then crushed em up, added cold dh20, siphoned until no bitter taste at all in garbage left, filtered til clear,
reduced to powder, put in my Heet,(Holy Shit!
fa king scarey) filtered out all final binder
, reduced again. Now, what I ended up with
was about 1/2 of one baby jar of powder. Is
that normal? I dont have a scale but seems to me that if I where to weigh it, there wouldnt
be 30gms there. Have you ever weighed yours after 1st step, or is 240gms based on what
you started with, or after the reduction are we looking at concentrated form, so visuall
aspect doesnt count? I was extremley careful not to waste anything I even rang out my
filters after each cycle. Any way like I said
,is this normal?
Thanks, slick

FMAN
Member
posted 05-30-99 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FMAN     
wash pills in store bo8ght ice dH20.

then centrifuge or filter

now evaporate in oven slightly agar or with desicant inside

scrap off from pyrex cutting board ya melt this yourself slightly concave or has a grid thrown on the top for fun Make the water pool into little droplets, called cappilary action

Anyhow yes rinse product in MeOH three COLD

Filter centrifuge or fucking cook????
Are you crazy?????????????????????????

Any how filter ????????
What off???????

Wash shit away with Meoh while it is still an acid

Put into water or meoh dont really mater rereally

Unless you basify the stuff and salt out, this causes the H2S04 and HCL it aint hcl

Anyways do not basify

Strip Meoh for reuse filter it if necessary or pur down drain or burn it off

I used to burn it off kinda gets ya off to

Anyways do please centrifuge the meoh off add water and centrifuge the goodies

Now crystalize the good stuff

Mix some suggar in various amounts get a bouey you know a fish float!

Ok noew check the boyancy of the suggar make the booey.

Now mix your stuff in whatever it is ya are gona crystalize in, tempature solvent mixture compuonding is important to this procedure and nobody has it posted

Ok so make your own suggesting battery with a nicrome wire immersed into fluid cold seems that crystal can be controled as far as growth is concerned.

Anyways the crystals are evaporated from the solvent and allowed to settle out on the platform,[nicrome needle] or another dangling crystal fron an invisible string

Hopefully you are getting the idea by now!

Ok so the evaporate has some stuff in there and as it cools down ya want to keep the gasses moving some is gona not collect and falls off into the swimming pool it is recycled later, it the lost crystal does eventually fall to the bottom of the sugar solution if properly boyant and maintained from evaporation, ever had a B-52?

Well anyways the gas is ignited in a controled manner [previously discussed]and allowed to flow up to the platform, here here it make a large and beautiful Ice

------------Amethystium-------------------

Mr.Sandman
Member
posted 05-30-99 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.Sandman     
I can name a few places online that are cool.....if you have a credit card...its the only catch......you can order from like gram amounts to kilos.....if you want the names let me know......but like i said you need a card

slick
Member
posted 05-30-99 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Sandman,
Would they except money orders, I dont
think I would want a paper trail. But if they do, PLEASE give me the info.
Thanks, Slick

Mr.Sandman
Member
posted 05-30-99 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.Sandman     
https://www.sigma-aldrich.com/

http://www.alfa.com/

try ur luck ....

spinme1x
Member
posted 05-31-99 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spinme1x     
methhead this is the same recipe i have been doing for a pretty long time, just a couple of questions though. Why dont you filter off your R straight from the reaction vessel then run dh2o through your filtered red to wash out any trapped honey? That way you can reuse the red for another time or two. Also when pulling your E from pills, I have found that I can take any type of pill (not the sudafed 120's)so just about any PILL and add 2x the amount of dh2o 5x that amount of colemans,kingsford,wizard or naptha which is Ronsonol lighter fluid. Then add your lye and you will see that the psuedo is being pushed into the solvent.just proceed from there as you would if you were pulling out your honey from your reaction that methhead has just been describing. heres an example of the ratios.
1000 sudafed 60 mg or 30 mg
1 1/2 cups of dh2o
7 1/2 cups of kingsford (because its odorless and tasteless)
1/4 to 1/2 can of red devil lye
3 to 5 drops of muriatic acid
ive found for myself that this method works for me.

fzr96
Member
posted 05-31-99 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fzr96     
well slick havent had any champagne bottoles explode on me yet but have had one crack on me befeore as to the color yes it would be better to use one that is clear so you can see the reaction better. and never had a problem with pulling any active charcoal into reaction the way i can tell when its done is when the pushing is done i add a just a little more dh20 to the reaction vessel then the push starts agian when it stops pushing its ussally done pushing all of the oxygen out

fzr96
Member
posted 05-31-99 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fzr96     
hey spinme1x when can you tell me how you know when your reaction is done to you go by when it turns yellow in your reaction vessel thanx fzr

spinme1x
Member
posted 06-03-99 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spinme1x     
like you said it quits pushing and wants to suck back,also the yellow tint as well as the red drops out of it.Also after it quits pushing i let it cool down then add a teaspoon of I2 crystals and get another reaction out of it to make sure all of the E is converted in to honey.

slick
Member
posted 06-05-99 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Spin,
What crystals I assume you are talking about iodine.

Methhead,
Please answer my last post
Slick out

spinme1x
Member
posted 06-08-99 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spinme1x     
yeah slick iodine. meth head could you answer my previous questions?
pleeeeeze

pebble
Member
posted 06-10-99 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pebble     
I'm just wanting to know. There is a lot of talk about crank being low grade speed, where Crystal meth is supposed to be high grade speed. If this push/pull method is used then what is the final product considered to be, crank or crystal meth? I need to know because everyone says it's crank and not the real good stuff. Please, anyone help me on this. Methhead I want your opinion too.

Pebble

methhead
Member
posted 06-23-99 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
it's crystal meth..........push/pull makes
crystal meth.......the best.......and yes,
the crystals i'm talking about, are iodine
crystals, and I don't reuse anything, cuz
the quality of honey goes down when you
re-use......

cactus
Member
posted 06-24-99 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cactus     
I only have pyrex earlenmyer flask. I was wondering if this is safe? The heavy push and pull scares me while reaching 180 degrees. Do you think it may bust? I just don't have a vaccum flask right now. I am using approxmently 2 gallons of water in each ROPAX 6 gal jug. The flask is 1200 or 1400 ml. and I am using 1000 60 mg. pills. The extraction method is great. I can't beleave how much trash the methanal pulls out of there.

methhead
Member
posted 06-24-99 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
Hmm......mine is an erlenmyer pyrex also,
and I know of quite a few people who use
regular boiling flasks for this method....I
just prefer the vacuum flask cuz of the
side nipple for letting in the distilled
water after the cooldown..........

toast
Member
posted 06-25-99 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
Ahh yes, I had a dream in which I found a 4000mL KIMAX filter flask for around $45 dollars...

pebble
Member
posted 06-26-99 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pebble     
Well, Toast, would you like to share your dream with the rest us, I'm sure some people might like to know, considering most companies sell 1000ml flask for over $100.00

Pebble

toast
Member
posted 06-27-99 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
well, I've found that online auction places, such http://www.labdeals.com/ , http://www.labx.com/ , and even http://www.ebay.com/ are good places to look... good luck

toast
Member
posted 06-27-99 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for toast     
these look perfect for the push/pulll... 6 of them too...

http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/Detail3.CFM?adnumb=24273&adtype=LabAuction


go get 'em, bees!

bloodgod100
Member
posted 06-28-99 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bloodgod100     
Toast - Yeah...I saw these and thought the same thing. I was outta town when these were sold and missed bidding:

http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/Detail3.CFM?adnumb=23741&adtype=LabAuction

They're 4L *and* have top hose attachment for 25 bucks. Pretty cool for push/pull I'd say...

Quick question for push/pull xperts - methhead/fzr96/toast (I know I've seen this discussed before but I can't seem to find the thread it was in, I swear) - anybody have successful push/pull dreams on the 1/2 oz (14g) level? Say, for instance, you only have a couple a bottle of Polar Pure left (totaling 1/2 oz of I), would you proceed? Just curious.

-bg

methhead
Member
posted 06-28-99 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
yes, the push/pull method will work on a
very small scale, but you really should use
a very small flask........I never do less
than a 1/2 pound a week, but I have a buddy
that uses either a 500ml, or a 1000ml for
his 1/2 to 1 ounce setups.........

slick
Member
posted 06-28-99 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Methhead,
If it wouldnt be to much trouble could you look at the post dated 5-30-99 by slick and tell me what you think, I think you missed this one. Glad to see ya back again.
Thanks, Slick

bloodgod100
Member
posted 06-28-99 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bloodgod100     
Thanks methhead...much appreciated. One last question - I promise. Do you put oil in your stock pot or just set the flask on the bottom? -bg

methhead
Member
posted 06-29-99 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
just put it right on the ole bottom....
uhhh......what post, where?

methhead
Member
posted 06-29-99 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
oh, now I see......ummm...invest in a scale,
if you can......cuz you're never going to
get the full 100 percent, but I usually get
pretty close.......sounds like you might've
had to use a little more heat......for
a half pound of yielded honey, it takes me
about 25 bottles of heet.......

slick
Member
posted 06-29-99 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slick     
Thanks Methhead,
I thought my yield to be a little low but the method is great, just needs tweekin.
Slick Out

cactus
Member
posted 07-07-99 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cactus     
Methead I read where you mentioned that if R is reused bump it with Hydrogen Peroxide. If a person wanted to reuse R what percentage of Hydrogen Peroxide should be used and how much? Thanks.

Glassman
Junior Member
posted 07-07-99 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glassman     
Hey Methead::

Hope you can help out on some questions.

The questions are as follows:

1. In the Hive message post, "Crystal Meth, where did i go wrong "
Worlock responds:
Your dreaming about purifying the pills to obtain sudo. This is not necessarily a difficult process, and does not require the acid / base extraction in most situations.-------
You want the dream that goes
Weigh out sudo, phosphorus, and Iodine, in a ratio of 3 : 1 : 3 respectively.

Question: What would the ratio be if one needs to do A/B extraction to clean shitty sudo befores P/P reaction? Icannot obtain cleaner pills unless I mail order.

Question: When using a smaller reaction vessel to react 1 ounce or lower of sudo, would it be advisable to reduce the volume of water in the gas container, thereby reducing the pressure?

Question: What is the hose inside diameter and length from reaction vessel to cans?

Question: When using angel hair to filter sudo, what brand do you use? This pasta thing really gums things up!!!!!!! (never mind)

Thanks.

------------------
GM

Android
Member
posted 07-07-99 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Android     
Come on, people! You want Methhead to come to your house and demonstrate? He's already posted more info than even a dumbshit Android with the programming of a third grader like me needs! My dream was 100% successful the first try!
Cactus! A dash! A splash! A jigger! A shot! A dollop! You know, a bump! You want as little water as possible, so just dump in a capfull. You know, the little cap that come's with the 3% H202's bottle?
Glassdude! Follow the info! Take what works from Warlock, and mix it in Methhead's extraction method. Android used Warlock's cottonballs in the filter funnel along with Methhead's friend's extract method to get the purest sudo Android's yet witnessed! And angelhair is just spun glass! The shit they put in aquarium filters works great!
Now read this thread from top to bottom again and again! It's all here, my lovelies!
Android loves you! He just started his period.

------------------
Redundancy is so repetitious!

Worlock
Member
posted 07-08-99 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Worlock     
Confidentially

Go to a retail store that deals in home brewery supplies.
You may find 2000 ml flask for under $50

Glassman
Junior Member
posted 07-08-99 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glassman     
Hey Droid:

Slow down boy.

The question pertaining to Worlock was for clarification. In the attempt for finding out the perfect measures if using a sudo shit, or perfecting to a freebase or a salt. Why not try for 80% return.

The same would apply to the question pertaining to the water level in the gas cans if a smaller vessel is used for reaction.

No were is hose diameter mentioned. I've looked.

And the angel hair one was a joke.
And you responded to it. Oh man what a droid!
I didn't think anyone would respond to that one. Have you become our new Crystal Moderator?
Nay, just a droid.
Goodnight girls

------------------
GM

methhead
Member
posted 07-08-99 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for methhead     
instead of dh20, use a capful from the
water jugs of hydrogen peroxide......if
you're dreaming smaller, just use smaller
jugs.......like the 1 gallon kind.....and
hose diameter, is a 1/2 inch I think....but
i'll have to get back to you on that.....

Glassman
Junior Member
posted 07-08-99 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glassman     
Thanks meth for the answer. I thought it would be smaller "Jugs" got to ask my girl to join the experiment.

As for the sudo I hope I can A/B it clean before reacting and not screw up the results.
Will announce results soon.
Thanks again.

------------------
GM

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